But for our purposes, were going to focus on three main types: birdshot, buckshot, and slugs. You can easily find most types of rare shell boxes on eBay at reasonable prices. If you have any old shotgun shells lying around, its worth taking a closer look at them to see if they could be worth anything. . Used shotgun shells can be sold in a variety of ways. Feb 25, 2012. First, look at the brass base of the shell. First, a bit of history. Also depends on gauge, some of the 410 hulls have a good value. According to the book by Ted and David Bacyk entitled "The Encyclopedia of Shotgun Shell Boxes" a 100ct Christmas Box of Winchester Rival shotshells is worth $8000-$12000 dollars depending on condition. The heat will accelerate the oxidization of the shells and their contents as well. Happy prepping! If you have no use for it, a local face-to-face sale is your best bet. But are they really worth anything? So save a few for display and shoot the rest. Only so many of these remain, and some of the rarer loadings may be worth more than some of the more common 12 and 20 gauge cardboard shells. You do not know how well the reload was done if it was loaded under or over spec, and even what type of shot is in the cartridge. Thanks. With the AWB signed Can I sell a personal AR out of state? Hulls that are one piece, such as Win Compression Formed (old style) have a great following and the 3" variety MK 5 even more so. Are old paper shotgun shells worth anything? Reloading, PETERS HIGH VELOCITY 16GA PAPER SHOTGUN SHELL BOX. While some old shotgun shells can be valuable, most are not worth very much. Plastic can break very easily and if the casing is corroded, that will place you in a very dangerous position. Old shotgun shells may not be worth much to some people, but to others, they are worth a lot. Most modern shotgun shells are made with a brass base and with plastic hulls rather than cardboard. Long story short, you can count on Traviss words when dealing with guns and rifles. But there are some exceptions. A place for responsible gun owners and enthusiasts to talk about guns without the politics. If you are looking for a gun that you can easily find parts for, then a new shotgun may be a better option. Even older shells that are in poor condition can still be valuable, as they can provide information to historians about past ammunition trends. So, if you happen to be in possession of some cardboard shells, they will be very old shells, and they would need closer inspection to determine if they are safe to shoot or not. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! If you are looking for a gun that is of high quality, then a new shotgun may be a better option. Vintage Peters Cartridge Co Wooden Ammo Box Crate 20 GA Shotgun Loaded Shells $115.00 $46.85 shipping or Best Offer Vintage Peters High Velocity Wooden Shell Box - Empty 14.5x8.5x4" With Divider $35.00 $13.17 shipping VINTAGE PETERS RXP TARGET LOADS 12 Ga. Vintage shotshell collecting is a growing hobby. Fourth, you need to decide what type of action you want. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Moisture will increase the deterioration of the shells through rust and other factors. Required fields are marked *. Continue with Recommended Cookies. The 2-gauge was once a very popular caliber for hunting waterfowl. Safe, Read More How to Crack a Gun Safe With Electronic LockContinue, There are many factors to consider when choosing a handgun, including caliber, size, weight, capacity, and intended use. If youre not sure whether your old shotgun shells are worth anything, your best bet is to check with a local gun shop or pawn shop. Another option is to contact a local hunting or shooting club and see if anyone there is interested in buying them. You can also make things like jewelry, garland, handbag, or even wall art with used shotgun shells. 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I was given a box full of old shotgun shells are they worth anything or should I just load em up and shoot them. Shotshell boxes for sale by Carton, Norwestern, and Gambles are examples of these brands. Using the trash will be dangerous as it could explode. The .410 bore is a very small caliber, and as such, it was only ever used for hunting very small game, such as rabbits or squirrels. What are bullets worth? An empty box sell for $2-15, depending on how old it is. Sure they're worth something more than a new box of shells, the hard part is to find those that will pay for them. That helps. Top 7 Best Biometric Shotgun Safe In 2023, 7 Best Shotgun Safe For 2023 (Buying Guide), 5 Best Bedside Fingerprint Gun Safe of 2023, 5 Best Closet Gun Safe In 2023 ( Buying Guide ), 10 Best Fireproof Gun Safe For Home In 2023, 5 Best Biometric Under Bed Gun Safe In 2023. Simpson Ltd. If the ammo is 10+ years old and been in average conditions, there is some risk in using it. The market was dominated by gun shops, hardware stores, and lead shot companies. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. The caveat here is that 90+% of the time, with the paper shells, you will barely be able to break even. Scott. Those large shotgun shells in four gauge and even all the way down to eight gauge became illegal to use on most game species almost overnight. learn the best shotgun sight for hunting, click on our article here, You can learn more on our article on how to sell used shotgun shells, PODCAST: Preparedness Mindset Keeping your AR-15 Reliable, How Much Kerosene to Mix With Diesel? Its advised to toss out properly if you have ammo above 10 years old. While looking for old shotgun shells and inexpensive shell boxes for sale, you may also find 18, 15, 11, 3, and 2-gauge shells that are no longer manufactured. I personally sold some old boxes of shotgun shells at a garage sale a year or so ago. The 25-round box contained 4 and 8-gauge newly primed empties for game and target shooting. Old shells should be fired with extreme caution to prevent accidents from these mishaps. These days I sell empty "vintage" brass shotgun shells for as much as $3 apiece. If you forget the pin code or if it is stolen, the only way to open the safe is by drilling through the lock. The brass shells were replaced by cardboard, only retaining brass in the lower portion of the shell that contained the percussion cap. Perhaps bringing a vintage shell box is fun because it gives you bragging rights to show that you're knowledgable about what you do. Never use old shotgun shells that are reloads, especially if you do not know who performed the reload. 64K subscribers in the Shotguns community. The shell size of 10-gauge, 16-gauge, 20-gauge, and 28-gauge are also common. If there is no date stamp, then it is likely an older shell. On the other hand, common shells from modern brands are generally only worth a few dollars each, even if theyre unused. For example, vintage ammunition from discontinued brands can be quite valuable to collectors. Finally, perhaps the most valuable type of shotgun shell is the 1-gauge. Better save them because they might be worth more than you can imagine to collectors. These include police stations and reloaders. I keep some of these to remind me of Dad and the great memories hunting with friends as a young teen. All are primed. While some old shotgun shells can be valuable, most are not worth very much. Most collectors are interested in older boxes and shotshells. Collectible Antique and Obsolete Ammunition in Original Boxes RTG SPORTING COLLECTIBLES, LLC Ray T. Giles, Alchemist "Turning Lead into Gold" All boxes are FULL and FACTORY ORIGINAL unless otherwise stated! This is the safest method to dispose of ammo. If it is brown or yellow in color, then it is probably an older shell. 10. Many people have old shotgun shells lying around and wonder if they are worth anything. If you are looking for a gun that you can easily resell, then a new shotgun may be a better option. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". Shotgun shell manufacturers no longer make shells with a complete brass hull, and they no longer make shells out with a cardboard hull. I get them out on occasion to show people as a novelty. Its made up of larger pellets, typically anywhere from #2 to #00. The star figured prominently in the Dominion lawsuit. There seems to be a problem serving the request at this time. Thanks for any information. If you are looking for a gun that comes with a warranty, then a new shotgun may be a better option. Missed this sub forum. The biggest danger around old ammunition is using it in your gun. 22 LR bullet is capable of traveling 2,000 yards (1,800 m), which is more than 1 mile (1.6 km). These old shotshells call to us of another era when our forefathers hunted. If the cardboard shows signs of having become wet at some point in its existence, then the condition of the powder in the shell may be dubious. Collectors Advice Please Reply, Thanks, Fred . Older guns often do not come with great customer service. The best place to dispose of it is at a designated disposal site. How far can a .22 bullet travel? The first shotgun shells were made in the late 19th century. See each listing for international shipping options and costs. For collectors of vintage hunting shells, hunting is only half the fun if you do not bring a vintage shell box with you. I'm a shotshell collector but I agree that these are 'collectable' in that at least the boxes are long out of print. If you inherited the shotgun shells, or they were given to you, you may not be sure how to tell the age of the cartridge or to estimate whether it will be usable or not. Yes. sickening, https://washingtonarmscollectors.org/show-schedule/, Question on some old Frankford Arsenal .30-06. The 10 gauge shotgun survived, and in modern society the 12 gauge, with the new technologies in propellants, waddings, casings and projectiles, make the old massive shells even more obsolete. The first shotgun shells were made in the late 19th century. Alternatively, you can use plastic wrap. The most common seem to be either at the 12 oclock or 6 oclock position. Some collectors are willing to pay top dollar for rare and antique shells, so its definitely worth doing some research before you sell them. Brass shotgun shells can be sold to metal recyclers after a . It looks old and dangerous. FAIL COMPILATION VIDEO: A CAUTIONARY TALE, THE AGELESS .22 RIMFIRE: PAST, PRESENT & FOREVER, SHORT LANE GUN ADAPTERS STACK-N-PACK KIT: TURNING A 12 GAUGE INTO A TRULY VERSATILE WEAPON. Some vintage shotshells and boxes are now very rare and command very high prices. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Also have the felt wads, cutter & a couple other tools. Shotgun shells last on average 10 years. and undamaged. Shaeffer Vintage U.S. Patent 8.5" x 11" Art Print, C-I-L TARGET LOADS SHOTGUN SHELL BOX PAPER 12 GAUGE EMPTY BOX DUCK HUNTING SPORT, Vintage Winchester Shotgun Shell Box Art Print 8X10 Hunting Dogs Cabin Decor, C-I-L MAXUM SHOTGUN SHELL BOX LONG RANGE LOAD PAPER EMPTY 12 GAUGE EMPTY BOX, EMPTY WINCHESTER- Super-SpeedVINTAGE PAPER SHOTGUN SHELL BOX MAGNUM 30-30. There is no value in old shotgun shells and they should not be considered as anything other than waste. The plastic shells are more durable than the cardboard ones and should last much longer. The world of shotgun ammo can get confusing with so many types of shotgun shells to choose from because shotguns are the most versatile firearm you can have. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2023 GunsBit - WordPress Theme by Kadence WP, How to Crack a Gun Safe With Electronic Lock. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Cartridges filled with shotare the most common type of shotgun ammo. 12 gauge shotguns are the most powerful and are typically used for hunting and home defense. Rt50blaster # 16108064 05/23/21. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. 27:17. House brands loaded by manufacturer: A variety of chain and mail-order retailers continued to sell old shotgun shell boxes until they were restricted by legislation. If you see the larger gauge shells such as eight gauge and above, buy them while you can. They were paper shells filled with black powder and shot. Do you like articles about the outdoors? Birdshot is the type of shotgun ammunition most often used for hunting birds. Winchester 9mm Long Rimfire - $250 Guns International You know you got your hands on something when a 9mm round is meant for a shotgun. . Signs that the cartridge could be a reload are scratches on the cartridge that could indicate it has been in a gun before, non-factory crimping of the end of the cartridge, and different color percussion caps to the brass cartridge base. But there are some exceptions. Old shotgun shells can sell for a few dollars each. Now, these long, obsolete shells make great collectors items that can increase in price and become a small investment. JavaScript is disabled. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. They are just too unpredictable to rely on them for these situations. What Can Go Wrong With Using Old Shotgun Shells? It really depends on the brand, age and condition of the shells. Canoe with stabilizers and 2 electric motors and paddle: Fishing AND Duck boat!. If you did, share it on social media or if you have any questions, leave them in the comments below. 40-Vintage Paper Shot Shells Federal Champion Target Load 12 Gauge EMPTY BOX, Vintage Winchester Shotgun Shell Box Art Print 8X10 Duck Hunting Dog Wall Decor, Vintage Paper advertising Peter's Ammunition shotgun shell Remington poster blue, Vintage Winchester Shotgun Shell Box Ad Art Print 8X10 Hunting Dogs Cabin Decor, PETERS SHOTGUN SHELL BOX TARGET LOADS PAPER EMPTY 12 GAUGE REMINGTON VINTAGE, Remington Power Piston Plastic Trap Loads 12 Gauge Shot Gun Empty Shell Ammo Box, Vintage Winchester Repeater 12 Gauge 2 5/8 Paper Shotgun Shells wood crate Dupon, 1969 Parker Hunting Catalog 43rd Edition Goose Cabin Decor Shotgun Shell Box, Vintage Peters Shotgun Shell Art Print 8X10 Quail Hunting Dog Cabin Wall Decor, Remington Game Load 12 Ga. 7.5" Shot Shotgun Shells Shotshell Ammo Box Empty, Vintage Paper advertising Eley Ammunition shotgun shells Alphamax guns shooting, Vintage Western Shotgun Shell Ad Art Print 8X10 Duck Hunting Fishing Cabin Decor, Old Vintage Non Standard PURDEY SHOTGUN CARTRIDGES Wide Playing Cards GUN SHELLS, Antique Hand Crank 12 Gauge Paper Shotshell Trimmer Vintage Reloading Tool, 20 Gauge Paper Shot Shell Crimper C-H Die Roddy Vintage Shotgun Reloading Tool, Vintage 1954 Remington Shotgun Shells Newspaper Print Ads, Vtg 1960s Redneck Christmas Tree Shotgun Shells Mercury Glass Double Star Lights, 1951 Vintage Ad Peters Power Shotgun Shells Duck Hunter Fremont,WI, Vintage Winchester Shotgun Shell Box Art Print 8X10 Quail Hunting Cabin Decor, Vintage Original booklet -1958 Inside FACTS on SHOTGUN SHELLS federal, 32pgs, Vintage 1954 Remington Express / Shur Shot Shotgun Shells Newspaper Print Ads, c1970 Winchester Upland Shot Shells Brochure Western Shotgun Ammo Paper USA, Vintage Shotgun Shell Trap Shooting Official US Patent Art Print - Hunting - 563, Vintage Shotgun Shells Patent Art Print 11x17 Duck Hunting Cabin Wall Decor Gift, Leave feedback about your eBay search experience - opens in new window or tab. If you have a shotgun shell that you believe to be old, there are a few ways to identify it. Above all, never use old ammunition for serious purposes, especially home defenseand personal protection. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. His expertise in working with different customer-bases helps Travis understand various needs people may have and offer insightful recommendations. The box has the correct shells unfortunately its missing a few. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. I found a old jewelry box that held 2.75" 12ga perfectly from when I was a kid that is filled with oo buck and slugs. Problem is shipping must be UPS Ground if you are sending it somewhere, and cost runs up pretty quickly. Factory, high-quality ammunition, preferably of recent manufacture, should never be substituted. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. - Quora Answer (1 of 4): Odd, obsolete gauges, 3, 4, 6, 8, 14, 18 etc are worth money. I can get a pic later if anyone wants. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Any obvious damage to the casing, signs of significant corrosion, or signs of the cartridge having been reloaded should all be warning signs of potential problems with the cartridge. The gunpowder itself will typically last forever if sealed correctly, but it could be dangerous to assume your shells are all sealed properly when in fact its likely that there will be cracks and other corrosive damages in them over time. Number of bids and bid amounts may be slightly out of date. Find vintage hunting shell boxes on eBay. Those old shotshells we come across should be saved or shot? The variety of ammunition, shotgun shell sizes, and applications can be overwhelming.Even though the most common shotgun bore is the 12 gauge, these pointers apply to all shotguns from .410 bore to 10 gauge. We have established that shotgun shells that are cardboard are very old and that you can get plastic-cased shotgun shells that can be decades old. Shotguns are quite popular for both hunting and vermin control and even for self-defense, so it is quite possible that many households may have old shotgun shells somewhere in the house. Buckshot is the type of shotgun ammunition most often used for hunting deer. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. I have 12, 20 and 410 gauge shotgun shells that are over 40 years old, full boxes 25 per box and boxes and shells are in (MINT) condition. I'm not really a gun person, but my dad was. One option is to post an ad online on a site like Craigslist or eBay. Are old paper shotgun shells worth anything? When this thirty-something firearm enthusiast wanted to do more than suggesting products to his friends, he took a turn towards writing. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. However, if you do not shoot often, you may find yourself in possession of a box of shotgun shells that are quite old, or someone may give you a box of old ammo. We believe the 2nd Amendment is best defended through grass-roots organization, education, and advocacy centered around individual gun owners. Here are some things to consider when making your decision. The dust cover is there to protect the inside of the gun from dirt and debris, but it can be a pain to remove. But if you have some old shells in your possession, do they get dangerous when they get old and past their usefulness in the gun? Nothing made now comes close. Thanks for any information. You may also find 0.410, which is measured in caliber instead of a gauge. entertainment, news presenter | 4.8K views, 28 likes, 13 loves, 80 comments, 2 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from GBN Grenada Broadcasting Network: GBN News 28th April 2023 Anchor: Kenroy Baptiste. You can donate them to someone who does reloading, and they can dismantle the shell and use the component parts. Required fields are marked *. Arms Collectors of Southwest Washington (ACSWW) Gun Show, Golf Clubs with bags, 5 sets of irons, 3 @ +1", 2 @ regular length, Wanted; Charter Arms Explorer II / Explorer 2. If the ammo is 10+ years old and been in average conditions, there is some risk in using it. Theyll be able to give you a better idea of what they might be worth. This process should only be attempted by a professional locksmith or safe technician. Shells $50.00 0 bids $10.00 shipping 4d 2h All rights reserved. Prices for ammunition can range from $0.05 for a . EMPTY SHOTGUN SHELL BOX $5.50 $3.00 shipping 19 watching You can often find these guns for a fraction of the price of a new one. Usually the earliest shotshell boxes demand the highest value if they're unopened. Are they worth anything/collectable? When choosing a primer for your 6.5 Creedmoor, youll want to consider the type of powder youre using, the temperature conditions, and your personal preference. Those large shotgun shells in four gauge and even all the way down to eight gauge became illegal to use on most game species almost overnight. They are worth more if you hunted or shot with your grand dad. Manufacturers of vintage shotgun shell boxes can be divided into three distinct categories: The most common types of used vintage shells found on eBay are usually 12-gauge. These shells were used for both hunting and self-defense. Most gun owners know that ammunition has a shelf life, including shotgun shells. House brands: A lot of local companies used their home-based factories to produce hunting shells by buying empties from the three major ammunition manufacturers. What Is A Good Scope Magnification For 1000 Yards? Unscrew the two screws that hold the dust cover in, Read More How To Remove Ar 15 Dust Cover?Continue, Most gun safes are equipped with an electronic lock that can be programmed with a pin code. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Travis Campbell is one of those guys who never stop talking about firearms and defense equipment. The 10 gauge shotgun survived, and in modern society the 12 gauge, with the new technologies in propellants, waddings, casings and projectiles, make the old massive shells even more obsolete. There is a lot of debate in the gun world about whether an old shotgun or a new one is worth more. A great uncle gave them to me 25 years ago & i think they are pre-WW2. The risks of shooting unknown reloads are simply not worth the benefit of saving a little money. Are old shotgun shells worth anything? However, some boxes are worth a high dollar for other reasons. In comparison, vintage shell boxes containing 10 or 20 rounds were used for turkey, specialty loads, or even game loads during the Great Depression years. The information here is for general educational purposes only. That way I don't get taken. Today, there are very few .410 bore shotgun shells still in existence, and as such, they can sell for upwards of $100 per box. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Are old shotgun shells worth anything? In the condition shown above and full it's worth $25 to $30 if nobody has written on it. However, it is best to always be on the safe side when dealing with guns and ammunition, so it is best to examine these old shells carefully to determine if any of them show signs of being a potential problem. Everything is worthless until someone wants it , ho wmuch its worth depends on how bad they want it . Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Old Shotgun VS New Shotgun Which is Worth? The hunting shell box came with 100 rounds of 10 or 12-gauge, new primed or unprimed empties. 50-caliber round. You can follow him@ericthewoodsmanon Twitter,The Classic Woodsmanon Facebook, and@theclassicwoodsmanon Instagram,The Classic Survivalist, andThe Classic Woodsman YouTube Channel. Jul 8, 2006. ebay will not let you sell boxes with live shells in them. I was surprised at how much someone was willing to pay. There are collectors for single cartridges but that won't help you out in the slightest. Some later ones like Drake was saying are worth quite a bit depending on the gauge and specific load. The best of us always leave too soon. If the old shells are factory rounds and have been stored correctly, and do not show any obvious signs of deterioration or damage on the outside, then they are generally fine to be fired from your shotgun. Older guns can be more difficult to resell. There are some undesirable outcomes that could result from firing old shotgun shells in your gun, which is why you should not use old ammunition for hunting, self-defense, or competition shoots. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. However, they are fairly new and many are still out there so their value would be minimal, perhaps 10% or so more than a similar box of new ammo to the right person. A full box of unopened paper shells will obviously be worth more than just the box, although some people collect only the box. I'd sold some old shotgun shells some years ago at The Oregon Arms Collectors show here in PDX. Generally speaking, old shotgun shells are not worth a whole lot. Every shot shell box is worth a considerable amount more if its unopened. Those were not worth what I paid for them since I did not even get a smell! The main benefit of the 12 oclock position is that it, Read More Where To Place Your Red Dot On ArContinue, Your email address will not be published. i see all sorts of old ammo like that at the gun shows, there are guys who collect this stuff. Re: Old paper shotshell value. Old shells should be fired with extreme caution to prevent accidents from these mishaps. Revolvers are typically more reliable than pistols because, Read More Which Is Better A Revolver Or Pistol?Continue, Cleaning shotgun hulls may not be the most glamorous task for a gun owner, but it is an important one. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. A box of 1-gauge shotgun shells can sell for upwards of $300. Are they worth anything? Old shotgun shells can be worth a lot of money, depending on their condition and age. there definitely worth something, how much i couldn't tell ya. If that box of Rem Exp. Older guns can be more difficult to find parts for. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Fox News announced in an abrupt statement it will "part ways" with longtime host Tucker Carlson, seen by many as the face of the network's brand. The shells may also be discolored or have corrosion on them. If there are any shells that show signs of possibly being a reload, you should not fire these shells in your shotgun. Thank you. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. They last around 10 years when stored in a cool and dry environment. Not only will it keep your gun functioning properly, but it will also help to extend the life of your shotgun. Today, however, it has been replaced by the even larger 10-gauge. Hunting ammunition has gone through many shifts, and shotgun shells have gone through massive changes themselves since the invention of the self-contained ammunition cartridge. For more information, please see our You should send it to me for proper disposal. There are two things you dont want your ammo to get exposed to moisture and heat. Sobe carefull what you shoot up or throw away. There are a lot of collectors out there. Propellants have gone from black powder to smokeless, which helped hunters keep an eye on targeted game after the shot rather than through a smoke screen. The "old" shells probably are not worth . The 1-gauge was once the largest caliber shotgun shell in existence. Old shotgun shells do not pose a danger for storage unless they are exposed to heat or stored inappropriately. Most hunting shell boxes are distinguished by the size and the number of rounds in a box. Whether you like Hunting, Skeet, Clay Pigeon, Home Defense or anything that involves a Shotgun Welcome to As anyone whos ever been to a gun show or pawn shop knows, old guns and ammunition are big business. We recommend getting a dehumidifier for both your firearms and ammo. Finally, check the paper wadding inside the shell. On average, Parkers fetch around $12,000 at auctions if it is in top condition. The value of these will depend on the specific make and model of the shell, as well as its rarity. These shells were used for both hunting and self-defense. Thank you. Now that weve got that out of the way, lets talk about value.
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