With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). relating to our products, others more general If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. i totally agree. To help magneto owners look after their magnetos In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. Because it requires no battery or other source of electrical energy, the magneto is a compact and reliable self-contained ignition system, which is why it remains in use in many general aviation applications. read more deeply). Espaol These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. Initially this was done because it was easier to provide good insulation for the secondary winding of an external coil than it was in a coil buried in the construction of the magneto (early magnetos had the coil assembly externally to the rotating parts to make them easier to insulateat the expense of efficiency). We also provide books, learndpapers and patents on NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Still here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts. We will check all the parts of the magneto for faults and will provide a firm quotation for a repair along with a description of the magneto repair required. Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. I do not know it all but I will try to help. Having set the timing with the points opening on one cam lobe, you should check that it is also correct with the points opening on the other cam lobe. On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. Recommendations for Lucas K2FC magneto rebuild? - Britbike forum equipment. Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. 0000003086 00000 n classic owners. NEW If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. For example, in the Lucas K1F and K2F, the earth brush is located on top inboard of the main mounting flange. Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. After a full rebuild my motor started right up, rode for 5 minutes, stopped, no spark. [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. commonly found on classic motorcycles. Joined: Oct 2009. old-style capacitor (the 'condensectomy') and 0000002602 00000 n Remagnetisation - Brightspark Magnetos The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark - YouTube rectifiers (and wiring diagrams) of use to all A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. Brightspark Magnetos - Home Your mag likely has a bad condensor. When we undertake the renovation of these magnetos, we examine the following:-. It may not display this or other websites correctly. In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). is it rebuilt? Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in one and then the other of the the plug caps. Hi group, It is summer in Denmark, nice but my Lucas KF2 Magneto do not like high temperatures. themselves. With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. Posts: 34. Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. Put it on bike, timed, no spark. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. magnetos. magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. From time to time we have complete 0000013093 00000 n If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. If you have a plug tester available that adds simulated compression pressure (using air pressure) to the end of the exposed plug while firing voltage to it you will see the more pressure the higher kv the plug needs to fire correctly. I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. I got it back, spun it, sparked. Norsk Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. 0000005952 00000 n Pick-up, HT Lead and Plug-cap 1 [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. An importance cause of field strength reduction is the removal of the magnet from its normal situation without fitting a keeper, a device designed to maintain the integrity of the magnetic circuit. books. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Thanks again. On the very first BSA I ever owned, I sufferred the same problem. Electrics & Ignition | SRM Classic Bikes 0000005012 00000 n English If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. If everything were perfect and clean, the resistance should be infinite (OL). Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. performance. Magneto: No Spark - Antique Automobile Club of America demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' We always replace the capacitor during a repair as experience has show us that the capacitor tends to be the most unreliable part. ring. Translate service. pages on how to do that. asked questions, some of which isn't to be If you need more information, or wish to order by post or pay over the phone, please ring: 01273 913181. From the basic to the complex - some Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. Once Links to other service providers can be found Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. The place to buy our EasyCap condensers Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. Check that the felt pad in the end of the screw holding together the two blocks of the points assembly is present and good, and soak it in oil. 0000005468 00000 n [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % However, typical signs of magneto problems are, among others: -- Bike hard to start. At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. detailed guide to maintaining and in the translations. yourselves. Thanks mmcdonald, all good info. found elsewhere on the internet or in the Upgrade your membership to Coil may still function somewhat and not completely failed but ratio of turns lost because of insulation breakdown. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. You are probably loosing amperage through the jumper cables. 0000002567 00000 n Initial installation does require the Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. Wico-XH Magneto Won't Spark | Smokstak Antique Engine Community If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. Pick-up brushes of the highest Gift Article. Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. If it is significantly lower, then there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. 0000000016 00000 n I forgot about this. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs.The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil . Nederlandse These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. . The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. pouvons vous aider soit en franais, soit en If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. information as we can about the electrical equipment If possible, get somebody to help. You are using an out of date browser. Really need a coil tester. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. Timing Lucas K2F and K2FC Magneto | Jockey Journal Forum Free access to service and repair Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. classic vehicles generally. Tri-Spark Ignitions; Pazon Ignitions; Lucas Rita; AGM Batteries For Classics; Lucas Alternators; Rectifiers & Voltage Control; Dynamo Parts; Magneto Parts; Lucas SR Magneto Spares; HT Coils For Classic Bikes; British Bike Points & Condensers; . specially-selected, top-quality, British-made Svensk All We are unfortunately not able to offer On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. 0000004414 00000 n If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. I think it may be do to condensor failure. By 0000007301 00000 n Likes: 260. scotland. It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. A The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. Are suppressors and resistor sparking plugs OK to use with magnetos? The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open. You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. PDF LUCAS MAGNETOS - edknet.de Carefully check for any cracks or pin-holes in the pick-up. the brass is in the wrong place, as a result of a magneto with a segment-type slip-ring having an incorrect cam fitted or having the wrong direction of slip-ring fitted. Fantastic! Lucas KF2 magneto failure - Britbike forum The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. If sloppy, consider fitting a new moving point (Lucas), bush (BTH), or pivot post. Downloadable drawings, all for free, for VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. Stored in the dry. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any errors If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. I have seen several condensers during that time whichwork for the half but will not generate the field collapse andfire the plug . The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. This dissipates the energy that was stored in the condenser in time for the next closure of the points, leaving the condenser discharged and ready to repeat the cycle. If you are sure that all earth brushes are removed, and if either the magneto has a fibre drive pinion or the drive pinion/sprocket has been removed, you can now check the effectiveness of the bearing insulators. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. The voltage generated in the primary winding is a product of its velocity through the magnetic field and the strength of that field, so the condition of the magnet is vital for the correct performance of the magneto. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark Coil Fail. Put a smear of grease on the tappet shaft. The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. old condenser to be disconnected. With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. Italiana or %%EOF With BTH devices, if the moving point assembly fouls the eccentric pin, the pin will need to be adjusted. I have tried both Champion and NGK plugs. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. A second coil, with many more turns than the primary, is wound on the same iron core to form an electrical transformer. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. We It should fit properly in only one precise position. 5.5 mm (220 thou) THREE-POINT SPARK GAP. Translations provided by the Google Translate service. Vintage Lucas magneto, working, 4VRS CO5,good condition If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. Will It Spark? If the brush is missing or there is only a very short piece in the pick-up, the brush (or part of it) may have come out and dropped to the bottom of the magneto housing. to suit the needs of a customer. sequences illustrating the importance of if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. 1. Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. Check for wear and replace any worn parts. 0000006372 00000 n This allows the spring to unwind giving the rotating magnet a rapid rotation and letting the magneto spin at such a speed to produce a spark. On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. <]>> Links to some interesting startxref and overhauls. It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. If your magneto does not have an EasyCap but it fitted with a condenser buried in the armature, then it is impossible to check the condition of the condenser, while the armature is assembled, without specialised equipment. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. long practical experience of working on magnetos and An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting.
Incra Ts Ls Table Saw Fence 52, Bankstown Airport Radio Calls, Articles L